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Blood Vow

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Friday, March 19, 2010

Anti mech versus mech

It seems like most everyone will tell you mech is king. If you want to get ahead of the curve then I challenge you to not to play mech. Mech is easy. Not mech is hard. You can take the easy route and go mech. I think you can play without mech and win. Here are some anti mech lists that are very strong:

•Daemons - There is no options for any mech in this codex. Soul Grinders are armor clad walkers but they are not mechanized. Mechanized is running units in transport. The rules for armor are incredibly good in 5th edition. There will be a big swing when 6th edition is released. It's the way of the world. The pendulum swings both ways.

•Foot eldar - Blackmoor has proven this list. Eldar are inherently mobile without mech. You save points in your army when you forgo mech. It's a challenge not to play mech but it can work. Eventually the pendulum will swing back away from mech. If you opt not to run mech now you are giving yourself a big head start.

•Battle Sisters with inducted IG - one my best friends who plays 40k created this list. In the right hands it is very powerful. Marc has demonstrated the ability to take just about any codex that is deemed weak and turn it into a monster. You often hear people say how awesome are dark eldar. Marc was the first person to win a GW GT with dark eldar. Everything that people do now with dark eldar is simply a throwback to what Marc has already done. Raider rush is definitely mech but not necessary to win. Dark eldar is a very old codex. Nothing has changed except for the rulebook and all the other armies that have received one to two new codices since the release of dark eldar.

This article is a direct tie in to my articles about strategies & tactics.



Laen said...

This is what I was trying to do with my Alpha Legion list. At first I did not include any rhinos. I wanted my opponent to come to me. I think armies that can reign holy hell fire on the enemy have the biggest advantage here. I'm going to try and pick up the IG codex tomorrow and build a list not revolving around mech. I think most people have forgotten that you don't have to start your bricks at your table edge... start them as close as possible to the middle.. move your guys in a bit and you'll have firing range on almost the entire board. Group that with the amazing supportive fire that IG has and I think a lot of people will be taken off guard. You'll need to make sure that you have small groups to sacrifice.. but they are guard.. the meat grinder of the imperium..

Bleh.. anyway.. I am almost entirely sick of mech and mech armies. Its all people talk about now.. and I find it funny that people will find one thing that works and turn around and say that nothing else works. Its unfortunate. Anyway, Back to building my AL Cells.. hehe Its nice to have finally found a chapter I really like and can relate with.

The_King_Elessar said...

Of course some others can work. However, I call BS when you post that Foot Eldar can work as non-Mech (they're shit) when you don't make any mention of Tyranids.


Even Blood Angles don't get a look in, though I accept that you may not have had a detailed look at the Codex yet. Surely the rumour mill has given you enough though...

Green Blow Fly said...

@ Elessar

Blackmoor has proven foot eldar. I've played Allan twice now (once with a hybrid eldar list, the other time with daemons). Allan is a very good gamer and it's unwise to discredit his success based upon some rantings on the Internet. If it can work eldar it can work for dark eldar as well but people are apparently still hung up their raiders.

I have written quite a few articles here on Tyranids. My version is a delayed alpha strike force and I've had great success with it versus both IG and SM. Tyranids have many tools to handle mech and I've seen a lot of batreps confirming this elsewhere on the Internet. I try to be openminded about these things and don't take as what a few vocal people say as necessarily gospel.

On Blood Angels... I do happen to have the codex but am waiting to unveil my thoughts at the appropriate time. Obviously they lend themselves very well to mech with the stormravens and fast transports. No need to cut off your nose to spite your face. If you think about it certain SM chapters were meant to be played as alpha strike according to their backgrounds and Blood Angels definitely fall into this camp. That doesn't mean BA aren't viable as an anti mech army, in fact I have some friends who plan to play them in this manner and they have some nice ideas; I'm waiting to see how it all flushes out after some serious playtesting.

@ Laen
I'm glad to hear you are doing well with your AL buddy! AL definitely have the background to fully support a non mech list. Units such as your outflanking Chosen fill this role quite well.

In closing I am by no means opposed to mech and if it makes good sense then so be it, but if you can develop a solid anti mech list then more power to you! I think people in general allow themselves to get completely caught up with the so called metagame and put on a big pair of blinders. By playing a non mech list you make certain elements in a mech list useless and it's important as a competitive gamer to capitalize on these types of matchups as much as possible. I would go so far as to say we might see a return to specific types of units eventually being able to assault directly from a deepstrike, case and point being the reworked Vanguard veterans featured in the new Blood Angels codex. Mech is very strong and the developers will eventually start to swing the pendulum back in the other direction. It's not a case of if it's going to happen, it's simply a matter of time and we are already seeing this start to happen as denoted above (pay attention).

: )


Cuchulain84 said...

I guess i've got Marc to thank for my Dark Eldar army then

Green Blow Fly said...

When dark eldar were first released back at the beginning of 3ed the army was deadpanned as a non competitive list then Marc showed up and won a GW GT with them. They instantly became the proverbial overnight sensation. Marc has done this with other armies too such as Sisters of Battle, Kult of Speed and Feral Orks. It's a testament to his gaming prowess. Dark eldar have suffered from 5ed, TLOS & armor is much more resilient now, which has really messed with lance spammed lists in general. I'm not saying they're no longer viable or not competitive. It's still a solid army if built right but being able for your opponents to more easily target your skimmers hurts. Dark eldar are still quite popular too. I have some tried and true tactics I use versus the dark kin, I've only lost to dark eldar a couple of times but I definitely respect what they bring to the table. Of all the armies out there I don't think any other race is more deserving of a new codex. I think from the GW point of view it's that they are not all that popular. They are somewhat of a cult army with a few very faithful followers. I'm sure that with a new and well written codex hte dark eldar would become more prominent at the gaming tables. In a way they are very much the wood elves of 40k and apparently they have not gone the way of squats just yet. If they don't receive a new codex by the end of next year I'm sad to say I don't think it will ever happen, which would be ashamed.


The_King_Elessar said...

Don't get me wrong, I respect that he has won with them...but I've played them myself, and, knowing my own ability level to not be that of a n00b, I find them too weak for competitive play.

I have no doubt I could win games and probably tournaments with them - but it'd be the exception, not the rule. One need only look at the recent crap on BoLS to see poo Foot Eldar at it's peak.

Green Blow Fly said...

@ the King

I understand what you are saying. Remember that:

Blackmoor =\= BoLS

Nothing against BoLS.

Obviously mech eldar is very strong. It's underrated in fact. That said I encourage players to run non mech lists. Mech is much like hte new black. Everyone knows the inherent strengths of mech. Strong as it is it also carried some loose baggage that can be exploited. I have to play my top game to beat mech eldar. It's the only way I have a chance but I have done it versus multiple players so I believe in what I say... Otherwise there would be no basis in what I preach.


MorbidlyObeseMonkey said...

I agree 100% with this article. I always try to go against the grain, and none of my armies are fully mechanized. I think it makes me a better player. That said, some armies simply must go all-mech or they don't work (current BA).

Elessar, the BoLS article was terrible. I'm sure Blackmoor would agree. That doesn't make foot Eldar bad though. If someone writes a bad tactica about mech IG that doesn't make it a bad army. Sure mech Eldar is better than foot, but IMO the difference is actually very slight. Player skill and luck have a much larger impact on the game.